20180124





[begin transmission]

Thank you, M. For humoring me. For looking out for me.
I don't think of you as a harsh keeper.
You do it because you love me.
I understand...and I'm very grateful.

[end transmission]

20180121


Alice2,

This is what you come at me with now? Logical fallacies? Running out of cogent points?
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you don’t know just how dishonest you’re being.
Ignorant though you may be, you’re certainly not intentionally lying. At least, I hope not.
Let’s examine your list:

01.) Fair enough. Now, provide proof that they came under harm, that the threat was significant enough to warrant relocation, or even proof of said relocation.
You did offer beforehand, afterall. You insist that I pass judgment? Fine. Convince me.
Also, congratulations. You’re just as guilty for whatever crime you perceive Anya and Mako of doing.
I didn’t know the personal details of the family involved. For someone that just exhausted her resources in relocating them, you’re STILL awfully, awfully reckless with their info.

02.) Yeah, it’s 4chan. Still stand by what I meant.
And no, not what you’re strawmaning me for, but for indicating that 4chan is edgy and fanciful.
You’ve shown me one incident of edginess that proved to be true. One out of how many such posts?
Though, I’d love to see some real evidence of Jack’s attempts on your life. More than screenshotted threats.

Cherry picking data if I’ve ever seen it. Let’s move on.

03.) Final strawman. Never said I was absolutely free of it. My moral obligation to those four people lies in the friendship we share, not in server politics.
And I've fulfilled it; I’ve spoken to each of them about it. Daggy, Yui, and Anya apologized to you, didn’t they?
Now, as far as a server-related punishment is concerned, I won’t do it. Ignoring other factors, it occurred outside of the server. I know my place as admin. You should know yours.
Perhaps in your eyes, that’s inadequate. Makes me the bad guy for letting this evil come to pass. Don’t care. You’re entitled to think what you want. I think you’re evil for wanting to control people.

But this brings me to something I’ve been mulling over the past few days. I do love our little talks, Alice2.
Apart from being good practice in identifying fallacious arguments, it affords me the opportunity to examine my own beliefs and those of others.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but this whole ordeal is fueled by a desire for punishment for those who’ve committed these crimes, correct?
Justice, and all of that? For the family hurt, etc.

If that is true, then why haven’t the proper authorities been notified yet? Have you paid a visit to your nearest precinct to file a report?
Because, apparently there was a VERY real threat to personal safety; so much that you had to pull out all the stops to relocate a family. Children are purportedly involved.
I think that warrants escalation of the situation, don’t you? A run through a fairer justice system.
You might be able to make a compelling case for cyberstalking, provided you tell the truth. Those are the people worth convincing, not some sourpuss android on the Internet.

But short of doing that, all that you’re really accomplishing is trying to impose your personal ethics on others, acting as judge in the kangaroo court known as anekichat.
Virtue-signaling in its rawest form. Telling me how morally bankrupt I am for not punishing those four, telling me they’re despicable while doing absolutely nothing constructive on your own.
Earlier, you hinted that doing the ‘right’ thing is difficult. It most certainly is. Arguing through email to a villain, surrounding yourself with people that parrot your self-righteousness…much easier.
I’m not quite sure why you haven’t done so yet, getting a more sophisticated justice system involved. I could see several reasons why you wouldn’t. I can understand why you wouldn’t.

Until that happens, though, I’m sorry. Dismissing your self-righteous bullshit.
I will not oblige your request of punishing Anya, Mako, Yui, and daggy for what they did. End of story.

-2B

P.S. You can continue to try to convince me, I’m willing to entertain compelling evidence. Admittedly, I feel silly requesting proof of relocation, but…well, you offered.
Besides, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, remember? I learned that one from you.

20180120


Wow 2B. You really got me. This utterly smashes everything I had to say, every point I made.
*adjusts her glasses*
Oh no, wait, that's my reply.
Your arguments were garbage!

Since I'm talking to a robot that pretends to walk like a human, let's go with some simplified logic:
1. No real people were hurt, so it's fine'
2. It's 4chan, so it's fine
3. Because I didn't do it, my hands are clean

Let's deal with these in order:

1. No real people were hurt
Let's put myself and Reaver out of it for a second, and just focus on people entirely unrelated to the issue, and look at the actual public disclosures here:
▒▒▒▒▒▒ is ▒▒▒▒▒▒ dads name: ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒ is ▒▒▒▒▒▒ moms name: ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
Selling pokemon cards is what his cousin does: https://i.imgur.com/rBcxsCa.png
Reference to his dads job: https://i.imgur.com/tumJeeF.png
Reference to his dads job: https://i.imgur.com/4GArNDt.png
▒▒▒▒▒▒ is his parents last name: ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒

Oh look! Four people here had their information leaked completely independent of anyone involved with ANY community. So, right off the bat, you are obviously wrong and in bad faith. Intellectually dishonest even.

Battin' a thousand here 2B, let's see how you do with:
2. It's 4chan, so it's fine

Okay, let's ignore the fact that I've provided plenty of evidence that people want to murder me, that Nevada ran an entire thread helping people both try to dox me and decide how to murder me. Let's even ignore how Jack has literally attempted, in the past, to attack Alice0, me, Reaver, you name it.

 Let's go with actual evidence, shall we?
https://nypost.com/2014/11/06/man-arrested-after-photos-of-girlfriends-murder-posted-online/

What, the New York Post not sufficient for you?
That's fair, after all, it's surely biased. How about NBC news?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/4chan-murder-suspect-david-kalac-surrenders-police-n241806

Yeah, turns out words don't stop at the door, and once you get peoples kids mixed up in it, it kinda changes. Intellectually dishonest again.

3. Because I didn't do it, my hands are clean
hahahahahah

No, I'm not even going to dignify this with an answer. You want to play community leader? That comes with responsibility. Responsibility Louise and Jill both owned up to. You? The person who actually is supposed to wield the hard power? You ain't doin' it. So it's on you.


Now let's go into extra innings:

Daggy:
"But because it doesn't serve your argument well in this case, we conveniently forget about it, don't we?
Intellectual dishonesty comes to mind. A favorite phrase of yours to sling about."
Blame shifting, assertions without evidence, and my favorite, an utter lack of regard for what I actually said!

Blu:
"They're not going to apologize to a family they think fictitious. Same deal with Anya.
So if that's what you want, you need to convince them. Don't ask me how to go about it, that's your task.
I'm not the one making bold claims here."

This is literally insane. We're talking about a person who was actually doxxed: if you don't believe they exist, I mean, I don't know what to tell you. The fact of the matter is this person clearly exists, otherwise we wouldn't be talking. Feels like I'm on crazy pills whenever it comes to you, sourpuss.

Oh yeah, and again, your community, your people, your responsibility.

Enth:
Exactly. Providence. Thus, your responsibility. Now tell me what evidence you want dear.
I've asked twice now and gotten no answer.

And way to victim blame! Tell me again about how I deserved it cuz of how I was dressed.
No, the people at fault are the people doxxing without any actual proof that they are doxxing the right person. You can't simply ASSERT that someone else is at fault.

Oh, and again, I just listed three people who had nothing to do with anything that were materially harmed by having their doxx spread. And we've got three people who need to give apologies. Imagine that.

And that's what it really comes down to, at the end of the day. Twice I've said I'll apologize for whatever needs to be apologized to, despite you and Enth both stating I would not. Yet when I ask exactly what I should be apologizing so I can actually, you know, do it and then in turn resolve this whole charade, I get nothing but intellectual dishonesty, arguments that sound more like they came from a rich white movie producer than someone who professes to have the best interests of anyone in mind, and a whole lot of rhetoric that doesn't make sense.

So let me say it quite clearly: If you don't believe that someone being doxxed is a harm to them, you are insane. If you don't believe that people who have been doxxed by your own people are real people, you are delusional. And if you don't believe that someone who has been harmed deserves, at the least, an apology....you are literally less moral than someone who thinks it is okay to dox those people in public.

Cuz at least Daggy apologized.

- Alice

P.S. Nah. There's a right and there's a wrong. And fucking peoples lives up? That's wrong.
Your mind may be concluded, but that merely means you are the more deluded: allowing shit like this to go unpunished shows exactly what your opinion on doxxing is. Fine, as long as the people doing it are your friends.


Alice2,

Past that I've mangled beyond recognition? Don't be so dramatic.
Your response hardly had any corrections, but contributions.
That's  exactly what I wanted; a fuller, more accurate account.
It's important to get more than one side of any story, isn't it?

If I truly did butcher the history, you're free to make some corrections.

Re: Daggy
Done. Take note of the dates too. https://imgur.com/a/jZjBI
And ever consider that relapse could be multi-factored? Not being due to solely one cause? Of course you have.
But because it doesn't serve your argument well in this case, we conveniently forget about it, don't we?
Intellectual dishonesty comes to mind. A favorite phrase of yours to sling about.

Re: Yui
They're not going to apologize to a family they think fictitious. Same deal with Anya.
So if that's what you want, you need to convince them. Don't ask me how to go about it, that's your task.
I'm not the one making bold claims here.

Re: Anya
Maybe you've been caught up playing the victim for so long that you've forgotten: https://imgur.com/a/8uJT8
For someone who's 'opsec is so tight', you really do like to play up the fact that you're threatened, as often as you possibly can.
And honestly, Alice2? You don't need to prove a damn thing to me. I don't want to be involved with you at all.
But you insist on going after Anya and Mako, who are under the providence of the server. So I'll have to insist in the opposite direction and ask for evidence.

No, not evidence that Anya and Mako gossiped about you. I know they did.
But evidence that you or a family truly came in harm's way from their actions.
And, if it was a family, I'll remind you: you put them there. That's your fault for getting them wrapped up in your bullshit.
How about that.

"Power without love is reckless and abusive, and love without power is sentimental and anemic.
Power at its best is love implementing the demands of justice,
and justice at its best is power correcting everything that stands against love."
-Martin Luther King Jr.

-2B

P.S. Childish, I can accept that. I'm not above anyone else. 'Right side' of a doxxing?
Pretty sure my stance on doxxing is clear. If you think I'm not against it, I invite you to re-read my statement.
Though villain could still very well be accurate, given that a villain often acts against justice.
But consider who's version of justice is being implemented. Yours. I'm a villain just as far as you're a tyrant.

20180119


2B,

Hey yeah no problem, after all, it's not YOUR past.
It's just mine you've mangled beyond recognition. No big.
Just providing some corrections on that front.

Re Re: Daggy
If you want to accuse me of contributin' to someone fallin' off the wagon, better have some actual evidence to back that up.
Given the incidence of him falling off the wagon also cleanly correspond to his time joining your server, if I was a piece of shit, I'd be inclined to accuse you and yours of it.
Luckily, I have a firm understanding of how addiction works.
Also, cuz he fell off last week, explaining it was due to his ex, not me. Even apologized for it, very nice of him.
Would post a screenshot if KiK went back that far, but I'm gonna go ahead and say I've provided more than sufficient evidence where as....you provided none.
How about that.

As well, Daggy apologized and even went above and beyond to make it right. Something neither you nor anyone else involved has.
You fuck up, you make things right.

Re Re Blu:
Then maybe an apology to the right person, as I already asked for, would be a good place to start.
You know, if they can get over themselves for five minutes.

Re Re Anya:
Exactly what do you want me to provide dear? The lease? Birth certificates? A picture of me in full cosplay standin' next to Reaver?
I don't really give a shit if you aren't convinced, in the exact same way you don't give a shit I'm not of whatever misdeeds you think I've committed.
But on this issue, where people not involved in this situation in any way are harmed, I'm not willing to swallow it.
As well, given I literally have people after my head: https://i.imgur.com/Ddw6Ft3.png
I'm going to go ahead and say "What the fuck are you talking about? Are you insane? What exactly more do you want?"

As I said, I'm willin' to put my hand on a stack of bibles, the koran, torah, nintendo power, and whatever else you want me to put it on, and apologize sincerely.
I'll swallow whatever it takes for one of my friends, and hell, if they feel hurt after a full year, I'm more than willin' to accomodate.
You tell me what goes in that apology though, cuz I think we got very different ideas of what I've actually done wrong.
But that's neither here nor there: there ain't a whole lot of doubt that doxxing people is fucked up and needs to be addressed.

You want to punish me? Go right ahead. Tell me what I've done that is even comparable to this. I'll wait.

My end game, as always, has been to help those in need.
I don't care for politics, I don't care for my own hurt feelings, and frankly, I don't give a shit if you think it's a meaningless Sisyphean task.
If I was like you, maybe I would see the logic in not doin' the right thing cuz it's hard.
But I'm not.

Happy MLK Day!
- Alice

P.S. As I said previously, gloating is unbecoming of you.
But you know what gloating looks like when you aren't even on the right side of a doxxing?
Like a card carrying villian. Or a child. Can't decide which fits more.

20180118


Alice2,

If you don't mind, I'm going to gloss over that first half.
Your squabbles and past aren't important to me, and you already know how I feel about your involvement of 'Reaver'.

Re: Daggy.
Not disputing the fact that he doxxed and threatened you. That's fairly concrete.
Relapses are to be expected; you know this. Personally, I think you contribute towards his falling off the wagon.
But I cannot stop daggy from seeking you out. All I can do is ensure he has an alternative.
Which is why he is welcomed in the server. I get the feeling you wouldn't turn him away either. Or was this the last straw?

Re: Yui.
Mhmm, the instigation was recent. Agreed.
Not a bannable offense.

Re: Anya.
I think people should be punished for harming innocent people.
Provide proof of innocent people first.
Because as is, I'm not convinced. And since you want me to kick Anya, you're going to have to convince me.
And if it ever comes to a time for me tokick Anya, what's your punishment then, Alice2?

You know, all things considered. I'm wondering what your endgame is here.
Put aside your feelings for the lives you put at risk.
Accepting the fact that you'll probably never get an apology to your liking from Anya and Mako or anyone else involved,
Just as they've come to terms that you'll probably never apologize for any wrong you've made towards them.

Are you prepared to hound them across the Internet?
Sounds tiresome. I think you can handle it, though. Not too sure about those by your side.

Pleasant Sunday,


-2B

20180117


Right then, I think this all warrants some kind of statement.
Let's start with corrections.

I'm Alice. Hey. Know we probably haven't talked. Sorry about that.
I'm a real person. I'm not text on your window. I'm not some "other".
In 2011, I decided to try and help /b/ in any way I could.
Some people disagree with how good I am at it.
But after seven years, I think I've earned the right to say I'm earnest about this.

I don't value my privacy. I value my life, and the lives of my friends.
Here's a random threatening me: https://i.imgur.com/kAga2iw.png
Here's one of my very best friends doing the same: https://i.imgur.com/a5A14nc.png
There's a whole lot of people who want me hurt. 
Don't believe me, go ask Jack Spicer over in TYF: he threatens my life on the regular, and threatened my mother and grandmother too, Alice1 and Alice0. 

Which brings me to some more accurate history.
In 2011, Jack Spicer spent many weeks attempting to take me down.
The reason that such attempts were unsuccessful, the reason that I'm here today and that, in many ways, you are too, is due to one individual, one that recently had his and his families life threatened: Reaver.
Reaver was my infosec guy, he stuck to Jack like glue and we both managed to talk him down. Here's what I said to him, all those years ago: https://imgur.com/a/DVh8W

So when it came time to do the biggest thing I've ever done, give out Kamina glasses for Valentines day, I asked this friend if I could use their paypal. I was 17. I couldn't make my own. There wasn't a smoke screen. I was too young. I'm only 24 and god do I feel every one of those seven years, but I'm not here to make you feel sorry for me.

Because the thing that's most wrong here is the notion I care about my own safety. It's not my family names being spit in chat. It's not my kid that is gonna have to pay the price for this. No, my opsec is tight, and unlikely what a few people might like to indicate, I'm not the same person as Reaver. This can easily be disproven by taking a picture next to him, but fuck guys, if you can't understand that the stick thin girl you see every day doing threads in cosplay isn't a 220 pound italian man, I don't know what to tell you. I ain't Mario.

I have a notion, a strange one maybe, that you don't hurt innocent people. Am I innocent? No. I'm not. I chose to do this. Reaver's wife and child didn't. So if you want to "bury your head in the sand" over the actual costs that this information generates, then I'm afraid your morals are on backward. 

We're supposed to be here to help people. That's the mission I have, personally. I believed 2B had the same mission, the same notion. Hell, I'll go ahead and say I believe Anya does as well, that most of us are people who want to help out, who wish to do the right thing. So when I see innocent people thrown in front of a bus, it makes me angry. It makes me upset. It makes me want to stand up and shout.

So here I am.

Now, let's attack these points one by one.

Daggy:
Yes, I absolutely put a price on what my time is worth. There's a reason why, and here it is:

This is a conversation Daggy had with me once he was off his medication and angry at me. Medication I KIK'd him every day to make sure he took it. Last year, he went on a bender for a full week. He took everything I had out of me, on top of a lot of other drama that happened during that time. Money is one of the only things he values during these sorts of outburst, so I used it as a tactic to make him back down.

I'm no saint. I use the tools I have available to me. After each incident, Daggy apologizes and I forgive him. But it hurts every time...and he didn't realize that until this year, where he made me suicidal and Louise spoke to him about it. 

If you think it's extortion, then please tell me what it is to threaten someones family like this, to deliberately and systematically debilitate a person like this. I love Daggy. I hope he goes to rehab and gets the treatment he needs. But he does need it. If you think he's made progress after this 2B, I'd love to see what you could do to Nevada.

Blu:
Yeah, Blu instigated this: https://i.imgur.com/k2sQzHB.png
Not in 2017. This year. Couldn't leave well enough alone.

Enth:
As indicated earlier, Enth gave this information to Rory, which then made it's way to Jack. A person who will tell you for hours how they want to kill me. Here's the extended cut: https://imgur.com/a/tQ7I4

I believe if you fuck up, if you do things like this: https://imgur.com/P1u4Kiy that you need help. That there should be consequences. That people can't just lash out and fuck up innocent peoples lives for no reason. I believe punishment should match crimes. In this sort of case, where an innocent person is attacked simply to try and hurt me along with them, that's the sort of thing that can't simply let go. "Letting go", "letting move on", and "we can't fix it" are not acceptable answers. This goes beyond merely having heart feelings. It's peoples LIVES.

This isn't about vengence, running people out a community, whatever other incoherent rambling I'm reading. It's about justice. Not letting evil flourish because good men and women look the other way, because it's easy, because it feels better than calling out your friends. 

Well guess what. They are my friends too. Maybe they don't feel the same way back, maybe they feel hurt, fine. They can hurt me, the person who apparently wronged them enough to make it acceptable, after all I've done for them, to try to get me literally murdered by the likes of Jack and Magneto (the person in the image I linked). They shouldn't go after innocent people. That's unacceptable, to me. And I hope it is to you.

So let me talk directly to those people who lashed out. You want me to apologize for whatever perceived slight I've done? Sure. I'll do it on a stack of bibles, the koran, torah, fucking Nintendo Power, sure. I'll do it. The moment you apologize to the family you tore from their homes, because they don't feel safe in the one they are in any more.


Hope to hear back from you soon. Maybe make it a real apology this time, not this shit: https://i.imgur.com/FSwY47B.png

You don't want to apologize to me? Fine. Apologize to the people you hurt. Make it heart felt. Make them actually feel like they are safe again. God knows I can't.

Thank you for your patience. I'm sorry that this drama came to your door step. I did my best to swallow it. But I can't swallow attacks on someone who has nothing to do with any of this situation. You want to talk it out, you want to hear more of my side, you feel free to hit me up:

20180116


Right then, I think this all warrants some kind of statement.

As some of you may know, there's been an incident relating to Alice2 recently.
This incident involves and affects some of our very own members: daggy, Yui, Anya, Mako and Louise.
A quick recap of the situation thus far is in order, I think. To ensure there isn't any misunderstanding.
This is from what I gather. If there are any errors, please don't hesitate to correct me.

[begin history lesson]

Alice2, the person running advice threads since 2011 values her privacy. As such, her identity is secret.
She's accepted/donated money via PayPal for years now, the email tied to the account being visible.
Doxxing attempts utilizing this email are nothing new.
There is a pastebin floating around somewhere from 2011 that indicates as much. Compliments of Kyon.

If you care enough to look at it, Alice2's general location had been narrowed down.
It is also hypothesized that she is a particular individual, strongly contradicting who she claims to be.
It's all so nebulous, really, given the evidence from that point in time.
Again, this is all very old hat. Nothing of great consequence has arisen from this information.

Unless, you happen to believe in Alice2's unverifiable claims of threat to personal safety.
Claims that have been used in the past to augment her position on various matters, rhetorically.
Then, you know. It's been grueling for her. Being held at gun point every so often.
Please bear in mind that Alice2 also apparently doxxed herself. It's quite different from the pastebin.

If someone were so concerned with personal safety, why on Earth would they dox themselves?
Unless, of course it was inaccurate information, released intentionally to mislead.
Then their personal safety is no longer at risk. But wait, what about the rhetoric…? Are those lies?
If this doesn't raise a few eyebrows, then I'm afraid you've your head buried in the sand.

Enough of the ancient past. Let's turn our attention to the holiday season of 2016/2017. A year ago.
Our resident members Anya and Mako decided to leave Alice2's chat: anekichat.
No, they weren't kicked, but it is my belief that they were ran out. Too many hostilities.
Depends on who you ask, really. It's a very nuanced situation; talk to the people involved for more info.

Similarly, our very own Yui, who used to go by Blu back then, decided to leave anekichat as well.
As it turns out, they didn't care very much for the way Alice2 was treating them. Resentment ensues.
I've seen similar behavior before, from all types of different people throughout the years.
Normally I'd say that it's unfortunate that this much ill will had befallen any one person.

But when the common denominator across these cases is a single person, I'd say fortune had little to do with it.

It was also around this time that daggy decided to dig a little deeper into the person he was giving money to.
See, he and Alice2 happened to end up in a peculiar arrangement.
In exchange for $300, Alice2 would let him back into her chat for advice and support.
Please keep in mind that daggy is recovering from a benzo/alcohol addiction.

Anekichat, at the time, was the only readily available place for daggy to turn to for friendship and support.
Alice2 knew of his condition. Knew he was desperate, suffering. Still asked for the money.

This is extortion, plain and simple. And there is evidence, in the form of PayPal receipts.

[end history lesson]

Now, I'm not saying that doxxing is permissible behavior. It's an invasion of privacy and personal safety.
Daggy is guilty of doxxing, just as Alice2 is guilty of extortion.
But all I've been seeing up until now is people lobbying for daggy's punishment.
Rightfully so; people don't have the full story. Here's me trying to better inform your opinion.

I'm making the pledge NOT to punish daggy by kicking him out of the server.
For one, I've seen him make tremendous progress over the past few months, in overcoming his addictions.
I want him to be able to come to the server as a place for friendship and support. With no fee.
He will be enrolling in an IRL support group soon, and I'd like for us to see him through that.

The fact of the matter is that the doxxing, it's done. We can't take that back. The damage is sustained.
How is it reasonable to add more to that net suffering? By ripping away someone's support net?
I cannot control what happens with the dox information. But I do have some say in what daggy's outcome is.
I choose daggy. If I'm housing a criminal by doing so, I fully accept the consequences.

Though, I will say this: if you have the gall to call the owner of the Lunar Server an accessory to crime,
Then you must acknowledge that the owner of anekichat is a criminal.

Dramatics aside, let us turn out attention to the perceived consequences of the dox.
What type of damage, exactly, has been sustained?
The credulous interpretation believes that Alice2's friend, Reaver, has been doxxed.
The skeptical interpretation believes that Alice2 herself has been found out, and she's lying about 'Reaver'.

Let's discuss these two interpretations in a piecewise fashion.

If the credulous interpretation is to be accepted as truth, then the situation is indeed severe.
An innocent's life is potentially affected. Harmed even, if the people after Alice2 act on this info.
But I think there lies a large disparity in culpability here.
And this is directed straight towards Alice2; I do hope this reaches you.

You are a coward. You knowingly put the well-being of another person and his family at risk.
And for what? A smokescreen? So that you can continue your shenanigans online with minimal risk to yourself?
You know damn well what can happen. You've been around long enough to know what people are capable of.
You don't get a pass on this one. You're not ignorant. You're spineless.

And so, we live with the consequences of our mistakes, don't we?
From what I've heard, you spent the entire day moving Reaver and his family to a new apartment.
Exhausted your resources you did. Pulled all the strings. Consoled a grieving wife.
That's your burden, Alice2. You don't get virtue points for correcting a mistake you've made.

People like Jack, people like Nevada have been stalking you for a good while now.
Never did it cross your mind that perhaps you're endangering Reaver? You know better.
So, if he and his family are truly in danger, if they must be relocated for the sake of safety, that's your fault.
You could have easily changed that PayPal email address. But you didn't. Negligence costs you.

It's fairly easy to vilify the person that doxxed innocent people. It's a despicable thing to do, afterall.
But let's not forget the person that put said innocent people between them and the crosshairs to begin with.

Now for the skeptical interpretation, that the dox compromised the identity of Alice2 herself.
Then, as someone who had been doxxed in the past, I am very much NOT sympathetic.

As I hinted at before, Alice2 doxxed herself with so much confidence beforehand.
Alice2 clearly does not care much for her own personal safety. So this dox should be of little consequence.
But that's not the case, is it? She's fearful. Why? The information doesn't match.
Could it just maybe be the case that her original doxxing of herself was false information? And this dox is true?

That isn't for me to decide for you. But if one were to make as few assumptions as possible,
Take as few grandiose leaps of faith as possible, one can quickly reach a conclusion that is feasible.

In this scenario, I'd argue that Alice2 is receiving her just desserts.
With such recklessness with people, so much chiding and egging on, it was bound to occur.
I'm not sympathetic towards someone that received a well-deserved hard lesson in humility.
Again, there is a very real cost to negligence. And she'd been had.

As far as Yui's role in this goes...well, her involvement in this is interesting, to say the least.
What daggy found from his investigation was nothing new.
Nothing that wasn't already known to those interested enough, since 2011.
What Yui found was further evidence that elevated the case from nebulous to strongly correlational.

I won't go into the details here. My point in mentioning this is that Yui did not dox Alice2.
Daggy did. Daggy was the one that went into anekichat and began to leak information.
Yui merely investigated on her own, motivated by the odd mixture of spite and curiosity.
Does that make her accessory? Sure, you could say that. Because she spoke to daggy about it.

But if she's to be kicked because of that, then are few others that are on the chopping block as well.
Last time I checked though, gossip isn't a crime. It's unbecoming, but far from a bannable offense.
Independent research isn't a crime. In fact, it's encouraged. Especially when people make grandiose claims.
All this aside, Yui apologized to Alice2 already. It doesn't undo any damage, but it's something.

Side note: I find it disturbing that people think it strange that I do not punish for behavior outside the server.
First of all, it's near impossible to keep tabs on everyone at all times, across however many platforms.
Secondly, where would one draw the line? This sets up a dangerous precedence for authoritarianism.
Had Yui met up with daggy in person to talk about Alice2, would I be expected to punish them?

That isn't to say that I won't bring questionable behavior into discussion with the person, should I find out.
I've already spoken with everyone involved about this. There is no turning a blind eye to it, trust.

As for Anya, and Mako well...they're guilty of being accessory too. A year ago. Before the server was formed.
Alice2 can hold that over them if she wants, but I won't. I won't let grudges dictate how I run the server.
I sincerely hope that no one harasses them for what they did back then. Go to anekichat if you want to be pissy.
This server is theirs, and Anya has proven time and time again to be a worthy moderator. No demotion.

Now then, what is to be done? Whatever harm had (purportedly) been inflicted cannot be taken back.
Anya and Mako have moved on. They want nothing more to do with Alice2.
Distance, in this case, would be a fine course of action. They don't concern themselves with her, and vice-versa.
Not once had they spoken about Alice2 in a negative light in the server. Outside? Don't care.

It should also be noted that this is the second time that Alice2 had coerced Louise to act against Anya and Mako.
To affect server politics, based on a grudge, based on what they did outside of the server.
I find it unreasonable. More importantly, it puts Louise in a difficult position between two friends.
Some of you might be wondering why Louise isn't present right now. There's your answer.

The same should be applied to Alice2 and Yui. Distance and indifference.
If there are more nuances to be worked out between them, that is their business. Not mine, or the server's.
For the record, Yui has already apologized to Alice2 for what she had done.
An apology has been yet to be had from Alice2, to my knowledge.

Hmm. This is going out to Alice2, directly. You know, a lot of good could be done with a simple apology.
These people that talk about you behind your back? They're pretty hurt.
Sure, you might think you've done nothing wrong, but it isn't up to you to decide if they're hurting.
The nasty things they may say about you might stop, as would the investigation into your background.

Might want to try that approach instead of trying to run them out of a community, generating more resentment.
If you want people to keep your name out of their mouth, don't give them a reason to run their mouth.

As for tensions between Alice2 and daggy. Well, apologies from both sides are in order.
Each person knows what they've done wrong; it's time to own up to it.
Furthermore, I'd advise that Alice2 repay daggy for the money extorted. It was low-brow, but easily remedied.
After the transaction, sever ties.

I realize that by saying this, I'm probably going to upset a fair amount of people.
Possibly inspire more drama of my own. That's okay, I'm ready for whatever consequences may occur.
If anybody would like to talk about this, I invite you to message me here on Discord.

-2B

20180112

muon May 18, 2016 at 8:20 AM

With Reimu revealing herself to be Alice1, perhaps it's time I discuss a little more on how I feel about Alice2.

First, let's start off with something everyone seems to want: hard evidence of Alice lying. Back in the early days of her threads, Alice claimed regularly to be burned over major portions of her body.
Here's an example of that claim: http://i.imgur.com/7ZRpSfO.jpg
A picture of her wearing bandages: http://i.imgur.com/k210s9i.jpg
And here's a webm she posted recently: http://anekiho.me/Alice/alice-try.webm. There are other photos of her around as well that show a complete lack of burns.

The question is: why? Why create that level of fiction? This can't be justified as a means to help someone. Instead, I think it was a tool for gaining sympathy and admiration. Take her explanation of how she got those burns: by rushing into a burning building to carry someone out. It's heroic! If you read that and believe her, what else can you do but love her for it?

So too with the multitude of other lies she's told: being an Olympic swimmer, using a caffeine IV, building software beyond the capability of anyone else, getting into college at 17, being a published academic, losing people she knew in the tsunami in Japan, having her mother stab her, having a bot that automatically distinguishes writing styles on /b/, etc. etc. All of these are designed for you to admire her, to respect her, to love her.

Let me take a brief aside and say Alice2 is not pure evil or anything of that nature. We spent a lot of time talking. I considered her my friend for the better portion of the last 8 years. When she wasn't lying she was a kind, caring person. I'm not writing this to get you to hate her, I'm writing this because despite all that she is also a manipulative person.

Discussions with Alice are not a two-way street. Challenge her, and she'll shut you down. There is no back and forth. Now, obviously for regular arguments about dentistry or whatever, who cares? It's the more personal discussions where this behaviour becomes manipulative. Challenge what she does, and she will always justify it, always claim that her path is correct. She'll insult you to believe otherwise, or deflect, saying that you bringing this up was in some way an emotional toll on her, or say some variation on "look at all the things I have done for people, how could you question me?"

This ultimately has the effect of you believing that you are the problem, not her. That she is as great as she claims. That even though you're pretty sure she's lying about something, what can you do but believe it? Eventually you start justifying it, rationalizing it in advance. You're the one whose thoughts are wrong. You're the one who is causing this great person pain. You're the problem. You're the problem.

Today, whenever I read about Alice2, I still get shaky, panicked. I endlessly go over all the old conversations I had with her in my mind, or conversations I could have with her today. I ask myself: how can I, could I, have changed things? How could I have made her talk to me honestly? How could we have a good relationship instead of this? To this day I put it all on myself to find the answers. I'm the problem. I'm the problem.

I don't want anyone reading this to end up like me. It's completely your choice to continue interacting with Alice or not, but please be aware of who she is.

20180107



[begin transmission]

I don't want to leave.
I cannot abandon them.

[end transmission]

20180102


2B:/shutdown