[begin transmission]

Kermit,

Well, that’s rather unfortunate that you don’t care much for my propositions. They’re sort of central to me addressing your second concern.
Namely, my assertion that Alice2 deserved the doxing. If you’re too lazy to read it, that’s on you. I offered clarification, so I did my part.
It’s obvious that you and Fred aren’t reading as carefully as you should. Never did I posit that I was offering arguments in a formal structure, nor that I think Anya, Yui, and daggy’s actions were justifiable.
I’m doing much more for you than you deserve, considering how rude you’ve been. The VERY LEAST you can do is read attentively.

So I’m going to halt our discussion right here, until you get back at me with some decency.
I know you’re a foul-mouthed, reactive provocateur, but not bothering to read my clarifications? Add a waste of time to that.

I will say this, however: “Feels Aint Reals.” I like it; think I’ll hold onto that. The sentiment behind it certainly rings true.
Though, as I’ve mentioned to Fred, a doxing came of all of this; hence, I don’t think it’s wise to continue to defer to a witty catchphrase to inform you on what to do next. Address the grievance.
Don’t go deep into aneki and 4chan history to dig up all the screens/logs you want and offer it up as ‘evidence’. That’s comparatively easier than actually listening to people and getting to the crux of it.
Though, in truth, I don’t think Anya, Yui, or daggy wants to hear from you. Not surprising; you’ve proven to be an awful person to talk to.

So, perhaps you shouldn’t address the grievance. Alice2 should; she was the person who did those three wrong afterall. It’s only fitting.
I only hope that, when the times comes, she does so in earnest, and that the others are still willing to listen.


-2B

[end transmission]

Hey 2B!
I could very easily go with Parody, but I'll stick with being as direct as possible and "insolent" where warranted.

First of all, this entire first half of your reply, This proposal mess?
I don't fucking need it. It doesn't enhance or further your argument in any way.
Literally don't even give a fuck about it, I'm gonna level with you.

These aren't the clarifications I wanted. This is some bullshit formal argumentation causality shit I don't need.

What I ACTUALLY wanted from you was your explanation on
1.) What you think Alice did to the people that want to harm her
2.) Why you think she deserves it

“Alice2 deserved the doxing.”
and
“Alice2 provoked the doxing and as such bears some responsibility for her own suffering.”

I need justification for these two statements.

As for the latter half of your Email, I absolutely agree. I'm sure people FEEL certain things. Maybe they even FEEL as though Alice deserved to be punished.

But let's step back for a minute:

Alice and I have a mutual acquaintance. A person that used to go by "Bernkastel"
They had a phrase they used to use quite frequently.
"Feels ain't Reals".

It's a pretty good sentiment. Just because someone feels a certain way, doesn't necessarily mean it's justified or grounded in any sort of reality.


You see I'm sure a good chunk of the people I've mentioned (and you've defended) FEEL wronged. But that doesn't mean they actually WERE wronged.
And as a virtue of that, they WEREN'T justified in their actions, and Alice doesn't DESERVE suffering as a consequence.

I'm actually pretty fucking disappointed you didn't go with each of them on a case by case basis, trying to justify their actions.
Which is what you SHOULD be doing instead of this "They feel bad so it's ok" bullshit you're trying to feed me.

See the thing is, I actually know their justifications.
I can also prove why all of it is a load of horse shit.


Let's start with Enth. Vert, Aegis, Anya
Whatever the fuck she's calling herself now.

https://pastebin.com/4KZnhF9c
Take a gander at this pastebin. It's from when Fred confronted her about attempting to Dox Alice and spreading it around.
Herein lies her justification for her actions:

----------------

Hoss Delgado - 01/12/2018
did you ever apologize to Alice for doxxing Reaver?
Anya - 01/12/2018
Did Alice ever apologise for basically doing the same to Mako?
Hoss Delgado - 01/12/2018
how did she dox mako?
by saying that she was Kamina?
Anya - 01/12/2018
How did she find that out, I wonder?
Some of her personal information was revealed to alice, which is what alice used

----------------


You see this line of thought? This ASSUMPTION Enth is making? The theory that there was some sort of conspiracy to randomly gather dox information on Makoto? That she MAY have spread it around to other people?

It's bullshit.
It's provably false.

https://i.imgur.com/AUkMQqd.png

Dag literally just flat out fucking told me, quoting Kamina herself.
All fruit born of this tree Enth has constructed in her fucking mind palace is invalid. The conclusions drawn from it are utterly flawed at conception.

But hey, I gave you a timeline with those logs a loooong time ago, so you should already fucking know this.
Whatever Enth has told anyone else? This theory of hers? Any resentment anyone feels over it?
Automatically unjustified and invalid. Just like fuckin' that.

Her feelings are unjustified and not rooted in reality.

Let's move on to Rory, since he's one of the original FIVE fucking people that were in on this dox.

https://i.imgur.com/F99xAWF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZkkLNcW.jpg


Linked above is the full context of him spreading it to Jack.

In it, he mentions that "5 other people" know about the dox. He also makes up some complete and utter lie that there was some sort of love triangle going on between Mako, Enth and Alice. Which is fuckin' fish with tits nonsense.
Though I would love to see even a fucking SHRED of proof about that.

But hey, maybe you wouldn't? I mean after all you've been approaching this whole thing without any evidence at all. Just a vague notion that feelings are more important than factual information.

But I digress.
We got a guy here lying, or under the completely wrong impression over what happened.


His feelings are unjustified and not rooted in reality.

Now I'd like to jump on to Blu, or Yui as she's calling herself now.
Dear sweet Blu....

I'd like to take you for a walk down memory lane, back when all of this shit first hit the fan.
Because in these logs, we can discover the key for Blu's motivations and justifications over why she's contributed to this doxxing effort.

(12:02:19) Blu: Well by that logic, I'll just go by my guy username, shall I?
(12:02:30) Blu: because clearly I can't change my name and I can't get away from "who I was"
(12:02:43) Kermit: Blu: the difference was, you were always Blu in here
(12:02:47) Angelic: @blu yeah well youre not a former member of the community

(12:03:40) Blu: She changed A LOT, and this is her new identity
(12:03:52) Blu: Also, Kamina is a male name and she might not be comfortable going by that anymore?
(12:03:53) Kermit: Blu you didn't even fucking know mako before
(12:04:07) Blu: I know Mako how she is now. That's all that matters.

(12:24:29) Blu: So are you gonna call me by my birth name?
(12:24:45) Hououin_Kyouma: Why would i do that?
(12:24:47) Angelic: this isnt even related to anything transgender
(12:24:51) Hououin_Kyouma: ^
(12:24:54) Angelic: this is literally a flat out lie lol
(12:24:56) Hououin_Kyouma: like seriously
(12:25:12) Hououin_Kyouma: You are missing the point blu

As you can see here, to Blu, this entire ordeal was rooted in some sort of made up anti-transgender campaign.
Once again we have a poisonous tree taking root in someone's mind palace. This is despite the fact that people were there telling her directly that her perception of reality was fucking wrong.

And also, funnily enough, Kamina herself contradicting this.

(11:57:57) Kamina: Now, to be fair, I am trans. But I suppose that's a non-issue here
(12:50:47) Kamina: I fucking ditched Kamina, he's fucking dead. The reason I didn't say that is because I AM NOT KAMMINA ANYMORE! Kamina was an asshole, selfish, obsesssed, fucking narrow minded, a cunt, power hungry, and just unpleasant to be around

The last quote is something I actually showed Alice back when we had our own arguments about this. I recommend you check your records if you want to verify that nugget for yourself.

So we have Blu, under the delusional impression that Alice had done something wrong against Kamina by virtue of her being transgender.

What does Blu decide to do? How does she contribute to this whole clusterfuck?

https://imgur.com/a/R3XLA

Take a long hard look at those fucking logs. Please pardon the partial censorship, I'd rather not be a party to spreading a Dox on one of Alice's friends even further.

You can see her there, laughing, taking glee at the prospect of fucking up someone's life.
This sort of behavior is utterly repugnant and frankly despicable. But we're dealing with facts, not feelings here, right?

Take a gander at these logs from an earlier conversation with Shiki


[22:15:45] Rachel: I asked them to reveal it because I want Alice to go down in flames
[22:15:57] Rachel: But they refused
[22:16:15] Matej: If that is what you thought I think we're done here then. I'm sorry.
[22:16:19] Rachel: I also found a lot of information and made several connections, which I won't reveal
[22:16:47] Rachel: Alice is a parasite. That is all.

Now with all that we've seen and know, can you honestly fucking say that Blu was AT ALL justified in this?
Or even that her "Feels were reals?"

Fuck no, that's a rhetorical question.

You see, the crazy thing about all of this is...
Even without this mountain of evidence proving my case, just taking things at face value?

What they did was fucked up anyway. Enth had no proof for any of her claims. Blu had Kamina contradicting her literally while it was happening.
They made a conscious choice to try to FUCK up someone's life with a Dox, crossing a line that should NEVER be crossed, over things they THINK happened.


As for Dag, he's already acknowledged that his feelings were invalid because he was off his medication and drinking heavily.
I have my own problems with him for sure. So does Alice. Being drunk and fucked up isn't a justification.
But at least he's sobered up and apologized and is trying to better himself. Which is more than what I can say for anyone else involved in this.
Certainly more than what I can say about you.


The weight of trying to DOX someone Vs, these insanely petty grievances...?
It's not a justification.
Alice never brought any of this on herself.
You're absolutely full of shit.


If you're somehow under the impression that Alice changing Makoto's name to "Kamina" in the chat for a day is a justification for an attempted Dox.
You're absolutely full of shit AND out of your fucking mind.


You said before that it's too late and pointless for apologies.

However, it isn't pointless and it isn't too late for you.
You can still apologize for trying to justify a DOX on someone who didn't deserve it.
Hell, Alice might even accept it. She's a good person.

[begin transmission]

Kermit,

Here are those clarifications you wanted. I’ll forgo the flowery elements and defer to a semi-formal structure to aid you in understanding.
Also, by no means are these propositions being asserted as absolute truth. You’re free to agree/disagree.

Proposition 01:

01.) Alice2 is a person.
02.) People are flawed.
03.) Therefore Alice2 is flawed.

This one is a mere formality. If we cannot come to a consensus about this, then I fear there isn’t much to talk about.


Proposition 02:

01.) There is suffering in the world.
02.) Some of it is necessary and/or unavoidable.
03.) Some of it is unnecessary and/or avoidable.
04.) Most of the unnecessary and/or avoidable is caused by people’s flaws.
05.) Unnecessary and/or avoidable suffering is not strictly reflexive, but can affect others.

Calm yourself. Before you get up in arms over Premise 02, think about it. Sacrificing for a larger accomplishment, the wisdom that comes with failure, loss. Some suffering is necessary and/or unavoidable.


Proposition 03:

01.) People may be aware or unaware of their flaws.
02.) Of the flaws that they are aware, they should seek to correct, or at the very least take into consideration.
03.) Of the flaws that they are unaware, they should have an open mind towards healthy criticism and introspection.
04.) In both cases, the responsibility for whatever troubles those flaws may bring to themselves or others, lays solely with them.

I think you and I can agree on this, for the most part.


Proposition 04:

01.) Humans are subjective, experiential beings.
02.) Suffering is a human phenomenon.
03.) Thus, suffering contains both an objective and a subjective, experiential element.
04.) The objective elements typically include factual events and their causal relationship to each other.
05.) The subjective elements typically include the reaction to said events.

This one shouldn’t be terribly hard to understand. Example: breaking a leg is an objective element of suffering. Pain threshold is the subjective element and informs the magnitude of suffering.


In the spirit of Proposition 02 and Proposition 03 I still maintain that “Alice2 deserved the doxing.”.
Perhaps the wording is what you have issue with, but I doubt saying “Alice2 provoked the doxing and as such bears some responsibility for her own suffering.” would sit well with you either.
Please try to understand that I am not trying to make Alice2 out to be someone that deserves nothing but terrible things to happen to her.
But in this case, she really had done this to herself. I know that to you, as her friend, to see me say that is fairly upsetting. I’m sorry but I cannot offer much else but my own explanation.

>>>disseminated by other hurt people huh? Please tell me, How was Blu hurt? How was Dag hurt? How was Rory hurt? How was Jack hurt? In fact, explain to me how Enth and Mako were hurt.
>>>Blu was never hurt.
>>>Rory was never hurt
>>>Jack was never hurt
>>>Dag was hurt because he went on a sociopathic alcoholic rampage and felt fucked up about it afterword.
>>>Enth and Mako just got their facade exposed.

Proposition 04 applies here.
Look, I’m not a huge fan of the overly-sensitive types. Generally, people could stand to have thicker skins and let petty things go.
However, I don’t try to define what’s petty or not for other people, simply because I’m not entirely informed of their life’s circumstances. I have enough humility in that regard.
Fact of the matter is, some of these people feel genuinely hurt, and it generated a fair amount of resentment as a consequence.

But as I said before, it’s too late for apologies. Things have already spiraled out of control, and the damage has been done. Things cannot be made right.
All of this lobbying for apologies at this present moment? Entirely pointless.
I’ve already made my recommendations to Alice2 that she sever ties with Anya, Mako, Yui, and daggy. Fully.
Plus I’ve suggested that maybe, moving forward, she not act with such conceit. It certainly wouldn’t give people reason to dislike her.

>>>Yes but WHY? What has Alice DONE TO YOU PERSONALLY? Ever? Can you name ONE thing? What about something she's done to your friends? Can you name ONE thing?

I don’t appreciate her treatment towards Louise, but unfortunately, Louise allows it to persist. That’s one thing.

My instinct tells me that my efforts in clarification will be parodied by you. It may just very well be in your nature to be a jester and a provocateur. Hope you prove me wrong.

-2B

[end transmission]

Oh I'm sorry honey, was my language too crude? My tone too "insolent"?
That's a good one, you know. A really funny joke.

A little naughty language sorta pales in comparison to the fucked up shit you've defended.
Oh I totally agree, that was indeed an earnest attempt at arbitration by Fred. He's a good guy, you know. He actually thought better of you.
And it wasn't the OUTCOME that wasn't to my liking, it was your flaccid and pedantic response to him. The in-text version of a hand wave. Sorta like the response you just gave me!
Call it insolent, a result of my "lower impulses" all you want. But lady, lemme tell you, not a lick of it was nonsense.
If you actually took the time to read it beyond the occasional "Fuck" I threw around, you'll find that it was a pretty in-depth counter and response to every scrap of bullshit you tried to feed him.
So yes, I would absolutely love it, I mean REALLY love it if you actually addressed a single one of those points I made.
That would be absolute best.
And trust me, I'm perfectly fine. My mind is working the right way and everything. No weird emotions clouding my judgement, which is you know, more than I can say for some other people.
After all, I didn't try to lead a doxxing campaign on anyone.
As for having a real discussion?
This is as real as it gets, girl.
I'm not Alice, I'm not gonna play a cute little frenemies game with you.
I know certain people in "your" discord did something absolutely reprehensible.
I also know you defended it.
Just so your crystal clear on where things stand between us.

Looking forward to hearing back from you!

[begin transmission]

Kermit,

I can understand why you’d be upset with me. In your eyes, I’ve hurt one of your good (perhaps best?) friends. I’d like to believe that this is you appealing to your lower impulses, however.
Because what you just did was spoil an earnest attempt at arbitration by Fred.
Just because the outcome wasn’t to your liking doesn’t give you license to wreck his efforts by coming at me, spouting off this insolent nonsense.
Rude as you were, in the spirit of at least trying to improve the situation, I’m willing to clarify and answer some of your concerns.

Let me know once you’ve calmed yourself, then we can begin a real discussion. Otherwise, I’m not wasting my time.

-2B

[end transmission]

>>>Hello 2B! What follows is my response to your email to our good mutual friend, Fred. I decided to take things point by point so I didn't leave anything to chance. Enjoy!


Fred,


After some deliberation, I regret to inform you that I will not be drafting an apology to Alice2.

I’ve reconsidered what I said; I still stand by it.


>>>Alright cool, so you led someone on with an apology, that's actually impressive. I've never heard of someone pulling that sorta shit before
>>>Pretty smart though, it gives the illusion that you're capable of changing your mind about something.


“Alice2 deserves the doxxing”.

The troubling nature of these words aren’t lost on me, Fred. I can see why you or anyone would take issue with it.


>>>No fucking shit, because it's insanely fucked up for anyone to ever think anything like that is ever ok.


If I cannot offer an apology to put your conscience at ease, perhaps an explanation will suffice.


>>>It absolutely will not suffice. No matter how you slice it, it's a pretty fucked up thing to say and believe.


I’m pessimistic that it’ll be satisfactory, because of her relation towards you. But cold comfort is better than zero attempt.


>>>It's not satisfactory because it's going to be an excuse as to why you're unapologetic for something that's objectively fucked.


The truth of the matter is that I actually like Alice2.


>>>Yet you said "Alice2 deserves the doxxing". Sure. Sure you do 2B. I like people and think they deserve to suffer in their personal lives too. Oh wait, no I don't
>>>Because I'm not a fucking lunatic.


Of course, there are several aspects to her personality and behavior that I find appalling; the very same could be said about me.

>>>I find this aspect of your personality pretty fucking appalling, so yeah, at least we agree here.

But looking at her in summation, I believe her to be a person of virtue.

>>>"A person of Virtue" that "deserves to be doxxed." Gotcha. Fuckin' air tight right there.

Have we disagreed in the past? Yes. Exchanged vitriol? You bet. Cursed each other’s name under our breath? I know I have.

>>>Yes but WHY? What has Alice DONE TO YOU PERSONALLY? Ever? Can you name ONE thing? What about something she's done to your friends? Can you name ONE thing?

Despite all this, I don’t wish any harm on her.

>>>You literally fucking said "Alice2 deserves doxxing" you fucking retard.

She’s a person just like anyone else. Limited, flawed, and misguided. But, personhood commands a baseline level of reverence. Another truth.

>>>You mean the reverence that someone shouldn't have their personal lives fucked up over petty internet bullshit? Yeah I agree. Oh wait lol


And part of that reverence entails that people shouldn’t suffer anymore than what is necessary.

>>>Than what is necessary? What the fuck? What has Alice done to deserve 'necessary' suffering? I sure hope this gets explained.


Therefore, I don’t believe that Alice2, as a person, deserves to endure needless suffering. Suffering brought on by the doxx.

>>>Then why the fuck did you literally say "ALICE 2 DESERVES DOXXING" This seems to run pretty contradictory to that statement. And this is your letter about NOT apologizing for that. Holy shit



A doxx that was performed by another hurt person, disseminated by other hurt people. Potentially reaching other people, who’s hurt has calcified into resentment.

>>>disseminated by other hurt people huh? Please tell me, How was Blu hurt? How was Dag hurt? How was Rory hurt? How was Jack hurt? In fact, explain to me how Enth and Mako were hurt.
>>>Blu was never hurt.
>>>Rory was never hurt
>>>Jack was never hurt
>>>Dag was hurt because he went on a sociopathic alcoholic rampage and felt fucked up about it afterword.
>>>Enth and Mako just got their facade exposed.
>>>If you think telling the truth about someone's lie is equivalent to the "hurt" of Doxxing someone, you're a fucking lunatic.
>>>Also very telling to me is that Dag is so far the only one that's offered a genuine apology.


These people don’t deserve to suffer anymore than Alice2 does. Third truth. Yet, they’ve been told that somehow, their suffering is lesser. Invalid. They have yet to receive apologies.

>>>again, what suffering have they endured? please fucking tell me. And I will say in all confidence that whatever perceived suffering they've endured IS in fact far lesser and invalid compared to a DOXXING.
>>>Tell me, what EXACTLY does alice have to apologize for? To any of them? What does alice need to say? Fucking fill in the blank. "I'm sorry for ________________ "



But I’m not here to demand apologies on their behalf. The eleventh hour has long since passed.

>>>Actually I wish you would, I wish you would articulate what apology they deserve, because right now it seems pretty nebulous.


All this, I lay on Alice2’s conscience. Whether it weighs heavy on her is indeterminate. If it doesn’t, it should. Crushingly.

>>>What should? What did she do wrong? You still haven't articulated what it is. Meanwhile we have a pretty concrete example of what you did. "Alice2 deserves the doxxing"
>>>I wonder if that weights down on you "crushingly"?
>>>Guessing the fuck not.

Because I’m of the mind that one should properly take responsibility for their actions. And no, taking responsibility does not include engaging in debate over the validity of other people’s feelings.

>>>You still haven't said what those actions are. I'm sure Alice will apologize once someone actually tells her what it is EXACTLY she should apologize for.
>>>It's pretty wild to me that you STILL haven't named something.

That very attitude that perpetuates the hurt, that causes others to suffer needlessly, the chiding, arrogance, unrepentance…

>>>No, the attitude that perpetuates hurt is shit like saying that someone deserves a dox, and then refusing to apologize for it and trying to justify it.
>>>Trying to justify fucked up shit is what perpetuates hurt, you fucking pretentious asshole.



It finally resolved a series of events to it’s inevitable, tragic conclusion. Which I hope is traumatic enough to Alice2 that it encourages change.


>>>So that's it huh? You won't apologize for saying what you said because you think it was necessary to "encourage change"
>>>What change? What change do you want to see? please fucking tell me, in this entire email you never say what alice did wrong or the change you want to see.
>>also "traumatic enough"? what the fuck is wrong with you?


However, it often comes to pass that people live their lives, paying their own price for living it.

>>>Yeah except Blu and Enth aren't paying for it. Guess it's not in your Jurisdiction to cast forth any judgement. Except you are with Alice for some reason.
>>>You know, the kind of judgement that compels someone to say "Alice2 deserved the doxxing"


And wouldn’t you know it? People pay dearly, often times for a single trait. They pay over and over…

>>>Ok now that we're at the end you still haven't fucking articulated why you won't apologize for saying something objectively fucked up.
>>>You just threw up some bullshit excuse that "other people" have suffered too, without explaining what it was exactly they suffered.
>>>If you really want to prevent this cycle of suffering or whatever the fuck, you could stop trying to justify some horrible shit you said and trying to validate it.
>>>Throw all the flowery bullshit around it that you want. At the end of the day you still said something fucked up and made up a nebulous excuse for it.

>>>So fuck you. You have a hand in my friend's suffering. You justify and defend the unjustifiable and indefensible actions of other people.
>>>And you know what? I don't think you deserve doxxing. I don't think any of them do.
>>>Funny how that works huh? You wrong us at every turn, and have the gall to say we deserve to suffer.
>>>Yet we haven't done a goddamn thing to you.

>>>So sincerely 2B, with all my heart, Go fuck yourself.

[begin transmission]

Fred,

After some deliberation, I regret to inform you that I will not be drafting an apology to Alice2.
I’ve reconsidered what I said; I still stand by it.

“Alice2 deserves the doxxing”.
The troubling nature of these words aren’t lost on me, Fred. I can see why you or anyone would take issue with it.
If I cannot offer an apology to put your conscience at ease, perhaps an explanation will suffice.
I’m pessimistic that it’ll be satisfactory, because of her relation towards you. But cold comfort is better than zero attempt.

The truth of the matter is that I actually like Alice2.
Of course, there are several aspects to her personality and behavior that I find appalling; the very same could be said about me.
But looking at her in summation, I believe her to be a person of virtue.
Have we disagreed in the past? Yes. Exchanged vitriol? You bet. Cursed each other’s name under our breath? I know I have.

Despite all this, I don’t wish any harm on her.
She’s a person just like anyone else. Limited, flawed, and misguided. But, personhood commands a baseline level of reverence. Another truth.

And part of that reverence entails that people shouldn’t suffer anymore than what is necessary.
Therefore, I don’t believe that Alice2, as a person, deserves to endure needless suffering. Suffering brought on by the doxx.
A doxx that was performed by another hurt person, disseminated by other hurt people. Potentially reaching other people, who’s hurt has calcified into resentment.
These people don’t deserve to suffer anymore than Alice2 does. Third truth. Yet, they’ve been told that somehow, their suffering is lesser. Invalid. They have yet to receive apologies.

But I’m not here to demand apologies on their behalf. The eleventh hour has long since passed.

All this, I lay on Alice2’s conscience. Whether it weighs heavy on her is indeterminate. If it doesn’t, it should. Crushingly.
Because I’m of the mind that one should properly take responsibility for their actions. And no, taking responsibility does not include engaging in debate over the validity of other people’s feelings.
That very attitude that perpetuates the hurt, that causes others to suffer needlessly, the chiding, arrogance, unrepentance…
It finally resolved a series of events to it’s inevitable, tragic conclusion. Which I hope is traumatic enough to Alice2 that it encourages change.

However, it often comes to pass that people live their lives, paying their own price for living it.

And wouldn’t you know it? People pay dearly, often times for a single trait. They pay over and over…

-2B

[end transmission]