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Kermit,

------- Priming -------

I still don’t see what your concern is over priming.
Those three already believe Alice2 wronged them and that they deserve an apology. I wasn’t introducing some new idea to them.
Besides the truth value of whether Alice2 has something to apologize for has no bearing on whether or not they’d be willing to talk to her.
It wasn’t dishonest. I clearly stated a hypothetical. So I’m not going to address this nitpick any further, it’s distracting from the main issues.


------- ‘Talking it out’ -------

In response to my statement:
It’s funny that you bring up my own doxing. I was just reflecting about that the other night.
I actually believe that I did deserve that. Was that anon’s actions justified? No, not really. But I can admit that I was arrogant and subsequently paid the price for it.
Moreover, I approached the anon directly and handled it discretely; I didn’t rope in an entire community to share in my misery. I didn’t let it spread to other communities either.
Within two weeks it had become old news and forgotten. That’s how you properly handle such things How long has this affair been going on now? Three months? It’s nauseating.

Fred wrote this in one of his emails:

Moreover, as you pointed out about confronting people before it got "out of hand," I don't believe the intent was to intimidate Alice or to get something out of her. If that was the case, it would have been posted on 4chan or linked specifically to her. Rather than this, it was linked specifically to people who have displayed a history of aggression towards Alice, with no history of being "wronged." Because of this, handling this discretely and quickly wasn't possible, and though attempts were made to try and handle it, they bore no fruit.

So I had assumed that there was some dialogue between Alice2 and Yui/Anya/daggy, after the doxing had occurred.
I don’t think it was wrong of me to assume that Alice2 would try to talk it out with them after. She’s capable. Did I expect too much?


------- Direct Statements -------

It’s only off of the table because I refuse to get them involved in anymore of this nonsense, and I’m not going to force them.
You maintain that they don’t want to be involved because they did they crime and got away with it, and that they can’t justify their grievances.
I’ll grant you that not all of their complaints are necessarily valid. You’ve shown me a few. But it cannot be conclusively said that all of them are invalid, when some of them are unknown.
Hence, those involved need to discuss it with each other, to resolve all this.

I’m of the mind that they’ve tried to talk out past issues with Alice2 before, and generally know how it plays out. They believe it to be a waste of time.
A reasonable theory, given what Fred said (above) and their reluctance to participate. Maybe this sentiment will fade with time, I don’t know.
That being said, it hammers home the extraordinarily low likelihood of a satisfactory resolution right now, given how people are.
Like I said before, there is no need for apologies. From anyone.



------- Dichotomy -------

That’s just a difference in the interpretation of human nature, then.
Correction though: she said ‘curiosity’. Not exactly the same thing as boredom.
It isn’t very hard at all to imagine someone being curious about someone else’s identity, digging up info, and then doxing them out of revenge once they were hurt.
So the two are fairly compatible, I’d say. But, if you truly think her to be that treacherous, I could see why you’d think it was out of pure malice.


------- The Screenshot -------

I do have my reservations about her character, but I have reservations about everyone’s character. She’s been behaving.
A lot of what you said about the screenshot I’m in agreement with, except for one thing. I do get the sense that she is particularly sensitive.
As much as I want to criticize Alice2, I cannot. As you can imagine, I have difficulty not stepping on toes too hard.
I know what it’s like; no matter how neutral or even ‘gentle’ as you might frame it, sometimes people take offense regardless.

Occasionally, people give apologies for hurting feelings though, despite not technically doing anything wrong.
Not sure if Alice2 is that type of person.


------- Alice2’s Behavior -------

Right, so when Yui stated her thought process, that “it must be my fault” in the screenshot, it sort of raised a red flag. Gaslighting.
I’m not saying this as a personal attack on Alice2. Understand that. It’s a genuine concern of mine and leads me to believe that there has to be some sort of behavioral change.
But I’ve seen this same sentiment echoed by the likes of Kaen, muon, Mio, gray, and Lily. Fairly old names, I know. Maybe Alice2 had changed since then? I want to believe that.
Yet I’m still seeing the same type of complaints, years later, from people around.

I do have evidence of this, but I think I’ll take it up with Alice2 herself, if you don’t mind.
I’m sure you’ve heard about these kinds of complaints before though. Your thoughts?


------- Apology to you -------

Sorry for that catty remark, about not caring for anyone else’s suffering other than Alice2’s. It was out of line.


------- ‘Alice2 precipitated her own doxing’-------

Could you define for me what victim blaming is? Something a little more substantial than what Wikipedia has to offer, preferably.
Though I modified my original statement, something doesn’t quite sit right at all with me…
You see Kermit, I’m of the mind that people should be held accountable for their actions and their consequences. No exceptions.
This is called responsibility. Apparently, if you indicate that a victim may be partially responsible, that’s victim blaming?

Seems to me like ‘the victim is always right’ manner of thinking. Are they to be absolved of all responsibility, no matter the circumstances?
That just doesn’t seem right at all. Provoking is a thing. It might be covered under Victim Precipitation Theory, but my understanding of it is that I cannot make a ‘responsibility’ claim.
I’m curious to know what you think Alice2’s responsibility is, as far as her involvement in this doxing is concerned. Is there any on her part?
Perhaps even more so, what her responsibility is in terms of conduct when it comes to people of vulnerable populations?


------- Concluding remarks -------

It’s been twenty-something emails, and we didn’t manage to neatly wrap-up what Alice2 should apologize for.
And that wasn’t even the original objective: the original objective is my answering for my assertion that ‘Alice2 deserved the dox’.
In the first case, I wasn’t expecting resolution. But, at the very least there is a better-informed understanding. Not a complete waste of time.
Second case…still in the works.

-2B

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